De-a Bushelea

[supermouse]

hai sa fim cinstitzi, ce se intampla in America ne afecteaza pe totzi. NU am timp sa traduc articolul, dar shtiu ca majoritatea oamenilor inteligentzi de pe fanclub shtiu engleza, shi intrebarea le este adresata lor.

Cabin Fever

The Advocate. Posted July 16, 2004.

The Log Cabin Republicans, who watched conservatives attempt and fail to pass a constitutional ban on gay marriage, are having trouble endorsing Bush for a second round. Story Tools
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Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA) discusses the Marriage Amendment in the Capitol Building in Washington, D.C., July 13, 2004. REUTERS/Mannie Garcia
Patrick Guerriero, executive director of conservative gay rights group Log Cabin Republicans, has been getting asked one particularly humorous question a lot these days: "So who are you going to vote for? John Kerry or Ralph Nader?" After all, he and his group of gay Republicans have seemingly been hung out to dry by the Bush administration and its backers in Congress. This week Republican leaders in the U.S. Senate pushed for but failed to pass a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage. A procedural vote on the proposal needed 60 votes to pass but went down on Wednesday by a vote of 48 votes backing the amendment to 50 against. Still, Guerriero and his fellow gay conservatives have been left feeling beleaguered by all the antigay rhetoric that surrounded the Senate debate. "I do a lot of soul-searching," Guerriero admitted. "Our membership is ticked off."

Mind you, that does not mean Guerriero is going to leave his Log Cabin post or the Republican Party. Growing up in a middle-class Boston suburb, he feared that his sexual orientation would thwart his political ambitions, especially as a budding young Republican. But unlike generations of gay and lesbian conservatives before him, he has refused to stay in the closet and has been successful. However, he is furious that the GOP – of which he and others have remained loyal to for so long – seems to be completely shunning gay men and lesbians while catering to a far-right agenda in which advocating the opposition of gay rights has become a favored means for raising campaign funds.

Guerriero, who declined to tell Advocate.com how he will vote in the upcoming presidential election, said he was heartened this week by a group of moderate Republican senators, including Arizona's John McCain, Maine's Olympia Snowe, and Rhode's Lincoln Chafee, who refused to support the Federal Marriage Amendment, which would have defined marriage as a union between one man and one woman. In fact, such senators, who did not want the Constitution tampered with, were key to ensuring that the measure died. In a stirring floor speech McCain said, "The constitutional amendment we're debating today strikes me as antithetical in every way to the core philosophy of Republicans." He added that the amendment "usurps from the states a fundamental authority they have always possessed and imposes a federal remedy for a problem that most states do not believe confronts them."

The developments provided an embarrassing defeat for Bush and the Republican leadership, including majority leader Bill Frist of Tennessee and Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania, who were advocating for the measure. "What we've seen in the last several days is that there are voices that will stand up against intolerance and actually take a different position than their president and their leadership in the midst of an election year," Guerriero said.

With questions about the war in Iraq, terrorism, and the economy looming large in this election year, many voters and lawmakers have seemed unconcerned about marriage rights for gay men and lesbians. Antigay groups and lawmakers have been hoping to turn the issue of same-sex marriage into the next "abortion issue." During debate on the amendment proposal, Santorum pleaded with his fellow lawmakers that "the future of our country hangs in the balance because the future of marriage hangs in the balance. Isn't that the ultimate homeland security – standing up and defending marriage?" But this week he and other amendment supporters learned that if there had been an up-or-down vote on the bill, as many as 60 senators were prepared to vote against it. So they turned to a procedural vote instead.

The week definitely had its bizarre moments as gay-hating senators tried to push through the FMA. In a move to get "celebrities" to show their support for the amendment, Santorum held a press conference and could only coax such people as actor Dean Jones (Herbie, the Love Bug) and singer Pat Boone. The press release chimed in that Boone is "the second most popular singer in the United States in the 1950s – second only to Elvis Presley." Meanwhile, Republican senator John Cornyn of Texas told an audience that gay marriage "does not affect your daily life very much if your neighbor marries a box turtle. But that does not mean it is right.... Now you must raise your children up in a world where that union of man and box turtle is on the same legal footing as man and wife."

In August, around the time of the Republican national convention, the Log Cabin Republicans' board will decide whether to endorse Bush. In 2000 it did endorse him, estimating that about 1 million conservative gay men and lesbians voted for the president. Back then, however, Log Cabin stated it believed the president when he said he was a compassionate conservative and "a uniter, not a divider"; his position at the time was that same-sex marriage should be handled at the state level, as opposed to the form of an amendment. After Log Cabin endorsed a more gay-friendly John McCain during the Republican primary campaign, an informal group of conservative gay men and lesbians known as the Austin 12 acted as a kind of sounding board for the Bush-Cheney campaign. The president said he was a "better man" for the interaction, and gay rights groups hoped that Dick Cheney's lesbian daughter, Mary, would speak out for equality. Openly gay congressman Jim Kolbe of Arizona subsequently spoke at the Republican national convention.

Four years later, however, not one of the Austin 12 is publicly supporting Bush. And most Log Cabin members are falling into the same boat. "I think that our membership is at a boiling point," Guerriero said. At the group's convention in Palm Springs, Calif., earlier this year, he noted that Log Cabin members were still almost evenly split on whether to vote for Bush. Now they are more against the president than they've ever been. "We always thought that the worst the president would do is support the amendment but do it behind the scenes," he said.

What may have been the final nail in the coffin for many conservative gay men and lesbians was Bush's weekly radio address last Saturday when he talked about the need for senators to support the FMA. "He greatly jeopardized any chance of a formal endorsement," said Guerriero. "It was a watershed moment. What was remarkable was that there was not even any tolerance in the address. There was nothing saying that he respected all families or the Employee Non-Discrimination Act or hate-crimes legislation. All he used was the lexicon of the far right and did not even give a bone to gay and lesbian families. It was a slap in the face."

Openly gay Washington, D.C., city council member David Catania, who was one of the Austin 12, left the Republican Party in disgust several months ago and now says he plans to vote for John Kerry. "I want to say that Patrick Guerriero is doing the best job that he can, and it's important to have our voices in both parties," he said. "However, my gag reflexes have expired and I'm not longer able to listen to the rhetoric of the Republican Party. I feel like Tom Hanks in the movie The Terminal. I no longer have a home." Catania said it won't necessarily be the loss of conservative gay men and lesbians that will hurt Bush in the election, but their friends and family members who no longer feel they can vote for him.

Whatever the amendment's future in Congress, there were signs its supporters intended to use it in campaigns already unfolding. "The institution of marriage is under fire from extremist groups in Washington, politicians, even judges who have made it clear that they are willing to run over any state law defining marriage," South Dakota Republican senatorial candidate John Thune said in a radio commercial airing in his state. "They have done it in Massachusetts, and they can do it here," added Thune, who is challenging Senate Democratic leader Tom Daschle for his seat. "Thune's ad suggests that some are using this amendment more to protect the Republican majority than to protect marriage," said Dan Pfeiffer, a spokesman for Daschle's campaign.

[nocturna]

ai tuh, ca nu era nevoie de atata amar de subect.
io zic ca problema care este reprezinta doar a very, very small nail in his coffin, cum ar zice francezu. deci, mult sgomot pentru nimic, cum zicea nenea shakespeare.

[supermouse]

nu cred ca este mult zgomot pentru nimic. Tipul a reushit sa infurie pe multzi dintre alegatorii sai. Cu tuate astea, mai exista inca unii care il sustzin din motive care depashesc limitele mele de intzelegere.
same sex marriage este o chestie d enatura sa-i faca pe totzi fanaticii religioshi sa sara in sus. Comunitatea gay din USA este destul de mare. Suficient de mare ca voturile lor sa creeze o diferentza.

[vali]

nu cred ca este mult zgomot pentru nimic. Tipul a reushit sa infurie pe multzi dintre alegatorii sai. Cu tuate astea, mai exista inca unii care il sustzin din motive care depashesc limitele mele de intzelegere.

stii ce?
daca ii refuza, nu cred ca se infuriau poponautii. ei erau oricum obisnuiti sa fie refuzati. acum, ca i-a acceptat, si-a pus in cap moral majority si aproape tot ce inseamna om decent in tara ai.
unii il sustin pentru ca profita de pe urma lui. ati vazut fahrenheit 911?

[supermouse]

zoso, tu ai vazut campania electorala a lu' Bush in 2000? Tipul a capatat sustzinere pentru ca propavaduia tolerantza. Shi ai vazut ce s-a intamplat.
Acuma nu mai merge cu "sut obishnuitzi sa fie refuzatzi". In Canada same sex marriage e legal, shi acuma e shi in Massachussetts. Oamenii aia aau dreptul sa se insoare daca asta vor. Vezi tu, in partzile civilizate ale planetei , a fi casatorit legal cu cineva implica neshte chestii care nu tzin numai de iubire.
De exemplu- in USA unde sistemul de asistentza medicala e un kkt, unii employers au planuri speciale de healthcare, la care sunt indreptatzitzi shi partenerii angajatzilor. deshi unele state accepta "domestic partners" majoritatea nu. Asta e unlucru.
Pe urma - tu pari sa nu intzelegi faptul ca multe cupluri gay sut la fel de stabile - shi uneori shi mai stabile decat cuplurile hetero. Cum te-ai simtzi tu, sa stai cu cineva 30 da anishi sa shtii ca nu ai nici un drept asupra chestiilor pe care le-atzi muncit impreuna?

[nocturna]

in USA unde sistemul de asistentza medicala e un kkt, unii employers au planuri speciale de healthcare

hehe. nushtu daca ai vazut John Q, care daca chestiile alea expuse p'acolo is adevarate...

in partzile civilizate ale planetei , a fi casatorit legal cu cineva implica neshte chestii care nu tzin numai de iubire.

te contrazic, shi la noi e cam la fel.

[supermouse]

nu am vazut John Q, am fost in america.... shi am vazut

[vali]

nici un conducator intreg la cap nu permite asha ceva.
pentru ca asta inseamna distrugerea speciei...

[supermouse]

de ce????????????????????

[Love2Fly]

Cum de ce? pt ca Barza a pus embargo cuplurilor gay si nu le mai aduce nica'

Cum te-ai simtzi tu, sa stai cu cineva 30 da anishi sa shtii ca nu ai nici un drept asupra chestiilor pe care le-atzi muncit impreuna?

Pai faza e ca nici unul din parteneri nu are dreptu' . Drept urmare nu se poate discuta despre cine are sau cine nu are drept asupra diferitelor bunuri si in fond...de ce e neaparata nevoie de un ACT daca cuplurile de gay inmagazineaza atata "dragsote" in dansele ?

[vali]

supermouse, nu te supara pe mine, da o sa iti fac topicul varza
1. eu nu concep homosexualitatea. de nici un fel. cum paula mea sa te nasti din 2 parinti (de sexe diferite) si dupa aia sa iubesti o persoana de acelasi sex?
2. e o faza in sopranos, episodul numit boca, in care unul din eroi ii spune prietenei "cause if people find uot u suck pussy, they'll think u'll suck anything". la fel si cu homosexualii. ce a scris presa de michael guest cand a venit in romania? ca suge paula. si nu imi spui tu mie ca eu, ca om normal, nu m-am uitat la el scarbit...

[darkshines]

Nu ar insemna distrugerea speciei, pentru ca chiar daca cuplurile gay nu sunt casatorite legal nu inseamna ca o sa se apuce sa faca copii si deci sa perpetueze specia.De asemenea, legalizarea same-sex-marriage nu ar determina cresterii numarului de homosexuali si deci nu ar afecta cu nimic perpetuarea speciei.

Este nevoie de un act pentru cuplurile gay la fel cum este nevoie de un act pentru cuplurile heterosexuale si nu e vorba de dragostea inmagazinata. De exemplu, daca doi homosexuali ar trai impreuna ca si cum ar fi casatoriti, in momentul in care unul dintre ei moare, bunurile care erau pe numele lui pot fi usor confiscate de familia sa, lasandu-l pe celalalt fara nimic.

[Love2Fly]

Zoso, sssssst! ca vin fetele lesbi de pe forum (Cruela si Christilla) si iti spun ca esti depasit si ca ai o mentalitate invechita.

Este nevoie de un act pentru cuplurile gay la fel cum este nevoie de un act pentru cuplurile heterosexuale [...] in momentul in care unul dintre ei moare, bunurile care erau pe numele lui pot fi usor confiscate de familia sa, lasandu-l pe celalalt fara nimic.

Lasa mai ca dupa principiul asta ar trebui ca parintii sa-si faca testamentul imediat ce ne nashtem ca nu cumva sa moara si sa ramanem noi fara nimic. (exemplu). Vad ca sunt din ce in ce mai multe cupluri si in lume si in Romania care nu se mai tem de "moarte" si prefera sa traiasca in concubinaj zeci de ani... si daca cuplurile gay sunt casatorite legal se formeaza un precedent.....care nu se stie cat de periculos sau nu este...

[darkshines]

Pai da, ar trebui! :p
Si binenteles ca nu e vorba numai de asta... legalizarea casatoriei intre homosexuali ar insemna (mai mult sau mai putin) ca societatea i-a acceptat, si cred ca pentru foarte multi homosexuali asta ar insemna foarte mult.

Dar deja deviem si calea pe care o luam e periculoasa(am mai luat parte la discutii in legatura cu subiectul asta pe alte forumuri si nu s-a ajuns decat la conflicte nasoale), si ca sa fiu la subiect spun asa: Nu stiu daca Bush va castiga alegerile sau nu, dar oricum sunt destui alegatori(atat straight cat si gay) care, revoltati de atitudinea sa fata de same-sex-marriage, cu siguranta nu il vor vota. La asta s-ar putea sa se adauge alegatorii care nu au fost de acord cu razboiul din Irak si care de asemenea nu il vor vota... si cine stie...

[supermouse]

vali
1. faptul ca tu nu concepi homosexualitatea este irelevant. Fie ca tzie itzi place sau nu, ea exista. shi atata timp cat se desfashuara intre doi adultzi care consimt, este shi legala.
2. Asta nu demonstreaza decat ignorantza shi bigotism. Tu nu intzelegi ca homosexualitatea nu este o chestie de optziune?

darkshines- ma bucur ca ma intzelegi

love2fly- ce precedent?

[nocturna]

darkshines o pus punctul vietzii pe i.

s-ar putea sa se adauge alegatorii care nu au fost de acord cu razboiul din Irak si care de asemenea nu il vor vota

e, aci ie buba, tzinand cont de fabtu ca respectivii alegatori is multzi. din acest motiv spuneam ca problema cu same sex marriage ie numa o adiere de vara pe langa taifunul cu razboiul.

[supermouse]

da, dar hai sava zic o treaba
sunt o gramada deamericani care chiar au crezut in toate kkturile alea care li s-a indrugat despre razboiul din Irak
in plus, Bush n-a cashtigat nici alegerile din 2000

[nocturna]

au crezut! dar acuma, de cand au cam dat-o in bara cu armele de distrugere in masa care azi sunt, maine nu sunt, shi cabinetu care o da din coltz in coltz, uamenii s-au cam saturat.

Bush n-a cashtigat nici alegerile din 2000

vrei sa spui ca a cashtigat in colegiul electoral, cu o diferentza deloc mare, e drept.

acuma am vazut:

homosexualitatea nu este o chestie de optziune?

ba este shi o chestie de obtziune, de fuarte, fuarte multe ori.

[supermouse]

nu naiti, nu este o chestie de obtziune. preferintzele sexuale ne sunt hardwired in creier... shi nu e nimik de fact
a cashtigat la curtea suprema de justitzie dupe ce nishte voturi s-au numarat, renumarat, anulat shi phootut pana a ieshit socoteala.

[nocturna]

cu riscu de a fi oleaca offtopic shi de o a da in diverse, deci tzine shi obtziune. cunosc uameni, care uameni au fost naturali la un momendat, ca sa treaca pe sistemu: "tuate is nishte curve, vai, ce dezamagit ma simt, las ca ma duc la gigelu ala de-l cunosc io". cam asha.

[supermouse]

aiti, daca tipii nu ar fi avut deja simpatii de acelashi sex- le-ar fi trecut prin cap? io nu cred

[Love2Fly]

Domne! e o chestiune SI de optiune pt ca daca copilul (baiat) creste de mic cu ideea ca a fi cu un alt baiat e normala pai atunci mai mult ca sigur ca o sa incerce si homosexualitatea in viata daca nu NUMAI homosexualitatea si nocturna vorbeste prostii pt ca asta cu tipii dezamagiti care devin gay pt ca femeile "este curve" e o abureala. Cum poti sa incepi sa iubesti un barbat daca pana acum te-a scarbit ideea asta? mai bine "lucru manual" toata viata daca tot "femeile e curve". "Think about it!"

[nocturna]

presimt ca stefan deja face pregatirile pentru mutarea treadului pe secs.

[supermouse]

love2fly- tu ai putea sa faci dragoste cu un barbat? Nu e atac personal, e intrebare cu tzinta. daca nu, de ce?

[Love2Fly]

Nu! pt ca mi se pare scarbos si ma gandesc ca asha am fot invatzat...i-am vazut pe ai mei parinti de sex diferit, am realizat diferentza intre doua persoane de sex opus si restu' a venit de la sine. Acum nu stiu cum as fi evoluat daca aveam doi tati sau doua mame. Da' tu ai face sex cu o persoana de acelasi sex? desi stiu ca pt voi fetele e mai usor :p

[supermouse]

1. intrebarea este: te-ai simtzit vreodata atras de un barbat? Tu chiar crezi ca o persoana ishi poate controla preferintzele sexuale?
2. da, shi parintzii mei erau tot hetero , shi bisericoshi pe deasupra.

[Love2Fly]

1. Nu, nu m-am simtit niciodata atras de un barbat si DA, depinde daca preferintzele astea sunt impuse in subconstient sau e o chestie de teribilism. Ca mai nou pustoaicele incep sa practice lesbianismul doar de dragul amorului propriu....
2. Ok...asha se intelege si pozitia ta in privintza homosexualitatzii.

[nocturna]

nocturna vorbeste prostii

deci itz f** nijte palme de nu te vezi! nocturna vorbeshte prostii da' nu cand ie tineretu bovin (c.b) de fatza, in cel mai rau caz uamenii respectivi vorbeau prostii. da' ce tuh, te-ai simtzit cumva?

teribilism, asha, ai ca am mai dat peste o obtziune.

[supermouse]

l2f
1. eu vorbesc despre subconshtient
2. da, adica chiar shtiu despre ce vorbesc. Dar cunosc o gramada de straight people care au aceeashi atitudine. Prejudecatzile nu folosesc la nimic, shi in cazul in care nu shtiai, discriminarea sexuala este ilegala in mai toata lumea civilizata.

[Love2Fly]

nocturno, nu raspund la provocari, doar stii ca imi esti simpatica

mouse, nici cu subconstientul nu cred ca am cutezat vreodata pt ca n-am avut nici un vis erotic cu vreun barbat. Cel mult pe verisoara'mea am visat-o :p