pentru carcotashi: mariajul homosexual

politicianul vrea puterea, poporul se multumeste cu o minciuna acceptabila

Mesajde miHaimm » Joi Feb 03, 2005 3:00 pm

The only lawful sexual connection is the marriage bed. All other sex activity is whoremongery and adultery, which will damn the soul forever in Hell.
asta e tare de tot... :) deci sufletul meu este deja condamnat!!!

dar cum o sa ne fie noua restranse drepturile daca vom admite casatoriile intre poligami
Poligamia este legala in mai multe state din lume. Problema este strict legata de religia care permite/interzice astfel de legaturi.

Mi se pare aiurea sa bagi homosexualitatea in aceiasi categorie cu incestul. Nu intra nici macar in aceiasi categorie cu zoophilia sau dendrophilia asa cum s-a incercat sa se sugere anterior.
miHaimm
Junior Member
 
Mesaje: 168
Membru din: Lun Feb 02, 2004 7:25 pm
Localitate: Polonia, Cracovia

Mesajde h0va » Joi Feb 03, 2005 3:18 pm

nene nae scrie:am zis ca nu mai zic, da` totushi, pentru mentzinerea adevarului istoric, s-a spus pe unteva p-aici ca e vorba de consimtzamantul liber exprimat, care treaba la cocoshu` de munte sau cimpanzeu(ca sa dau doar cateva exemple) e mai greu de rezolvat.

ca shi io ma gandisem la necrofilie, da` sh-acolo ie aceeashi mica problema.

shi
mihaimm scrie:Iarasi atata timp cat amandoua partile consimt de buna voie si nesilite de nimeni, nu vad o problema in asta. E insa mai greu de dovedit consimtamantul pestisoului... In cazul in care ar exista o alta specie cu un nivel intelectual apropiat de al nostru... nu as vedea absolut nici o problema in asta.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Dar se poate extinde... atata timp cat exista consimtamant de cele doua parti, cat amandoua partile au capaciteatea de a intelege actiunea pe care o fac in momentul incheierii casatoriei si cat nu exista notiunea de apartenenta (gen am un pisic - identic cu am un creion). Da' nu pe bune acuma... cu ce drept stam noi in calea uniunii lor?


nuj de ce da' tot evitatzi sa'i datz un raspuns lu' domnu nenea afecs care va tot intreaba da' cu poligamia cum ie..ca aici e vorba de consimtzamantul liber exprimat, ba mai mult nu e nici o problema de ordin "interior", nici un fel de dereglare, pur shi sinplu' nejte uameni care vor shi iei aceleashi drepturi ca shi ceilantz..lor de ce li se refuza acest drept?!?eo zic ca raspunsul la aceasta intrebare va scuate la iveala duplicitatea hetero'sexualilor care se declara perfect ok cu mariajul intre gay..

?!
Avatar utilizator
h0va
 
Mesaje: 2049
Membru din: Mar Oct 21, 2003 11:00 pm

Mesajde piskeshu » Joi Feb 03, 2005 3:19 pm

Io is de acord si cu poligamia!
Prezumtia de prostie se aplica tuturor !!!
"This used to be a fun house, but now is full of evil clowns..."
Avatar utilizator
piskeshu
banned
 
Mesaje: 5692
Membru din: Vin Noi 14, 2003 12:00 am

Mesajde gaga » Joi Feb 03, 2005 3:26 pm

Mi se pare aiurea sa bagi homosexualitatea in aceiasi categorie cu incestul. Nu intra nici macar in aceiasi categorie cu zoophilia sau dendrophilia asa cum s-a incercat sa se sugere anterior.


reiau: este vorba de o fortare pentru a arata ca dpdv moral nici una nu respecta institutia de baza a casniciei, proliferarea. CASNICIE, nu concubinaj.
Concept!
semnatura fara culori si nestridenta
gaga
 
Mesaje: 18663
Membru din: Sâm Aug 04, 2001 11:00 am
Localitate: La Matze Fripte

Mesajde miHaimm » Joi Feb 03, 2005 3:31 pm

y0ung_h0va scrie:eo zic ca raspunsul la aceasta intrebare va scuate la iveala duplicitatea hetero'sexualilor care se declara perfect ok cu mariajul intre gay..
Adica daca sunt pentru legiferarea poligamiei inseamna ca vreau si eu? Sau ce vrea sa insemne asta? Vezi ca iar ne departam de la subiect si cautarea de motive mai departe de cele enuntate este aiurea.

Sigur si eu pot sa afirm ca cei care se opun casatoriilor intre homosexuali o fac din frica ca partenerul lor de viata sa nu fie de fapt homosexual si sa divorteze instant casatorindu-se cu iubitul/iubita din liceu. As mai putea sa spun si ca este din frica copilului care ar putea sa vina sa-si prezinte viitorul partener de acelasi sex iar tu ca parinte sa nu ai ce sa ii spui pentru ca... este legal. Sau, asa cum supermouse afirma... poate chiar cei care se opun mai tare sunt homosexuali si traiesc intr-o frustrare pe care nu o recunosc si nu isi dau seama de unde vine (sau pe care nu vor sa o recunoasca)...

As putea face afirmatiile astea dar ar fi aberante.
miHaimm
Junior Member
 
Mesaje: 168
Membru din: Lun Feb 02, 2004 7:25 pm
Localitate: Polonia, Cracovia

Mesajde miHaimm » Joi Feb 03, 2005 3:39 pm

danone scrie:reiau: este vorba de o fortare pentru a arata ca dpdv moral nici una nu respecta institutia de baza a casniciei, proliferarea. CASNICIE, nu concubinaj.
Proliferarea nu are nimic de-a face cu casnicia. Asa cum s-a mai aratat anterior exista cupluri casatorite care "nu produc" si de asemenea exista persoane singure care au copii. Proliferarea nu este legata de casatorie decat prin religie si cultura. Nu incerc sa neg valorile culturale si religioase ale casatoriei, pur si simplu imi dau seama ca exista cazuri care nu au fost prevazute (sau acceptate) in anumite viziuni. De asemenea tin sa arat ca anumite viziuni (vezi faza anterioara cu sufletul care imi va putrezi vesnic in flacarile iadului) sunt gresite.
miHaimm
Junior Member
 
Mesaje: 168
Membru din: Lun Feb 02, 2004 7:25 pm
Localitate: Polonia, Cracovia

Mesajde gaga » Joi Feb 03, 2005 3:49 pm

mihai pierzi esenta, casatoria in esenta are legatura cu procreerea, cum am mai zis.

"Va lasa omul pe tatal sau si pe mama sa si se va lipi de nevasta-sa si se vor face un singur trup".

tu dai exemple eu am spus ca ea are legatura si am demonstrat in multe cuvinte ca are. tu zici ca nu are si ca anumite concepte sunt gresite.

hai sa te iau invers, da cu ce are dom'le? adica pana acum ne-am condus dupa reguli stabilite de societate si acum am evoluat si am zis "hai sa facem oricum numai sa nu ne mai inmultim ca nu e bine?" are legatura numai cu faptul ca doi trei zece oameni constienti vor sa se uneasca de aia asa, ca se iubesc? nu mai conteaza morala? nu mai conteaza binele comun, nu mai e importanta umanitatea? totul e un mare sex party, este?



edit ca am dat enter din greseala

nu are legatura DECAT CU RELIGIA si CULTURA?
care ar mai fi alte mari valori mihai, de care se tine cont in viata noastra spirituala? spune-mi tu te rog.
semnatura fara culori si nestridenta
gaga
 
Mesaje: 18663
Membru din: Sâm Aug 04, 2001 11:00 am
Localitate: La Matze Fripte

Mesajde nocturna » Joi Feb 03, 2005 3:56 pm

miai + inca una de la mine, care am omis prin mormanul de replici.

cum adica, nu conteaza ca-i o anomalie, atata tinp cat ie consimtzita de cei doi, ie ok ?
"Sunt un om. Mi se pare ca e de ajuns"

A.K.M. powered by another.ro
Avatar utilizator
nocturna
 
Mesaje: 8725
Membru din: Mie Dec 04, 2002 12:00 am

Mesajde nodingat » Joi Feb 03, 2005 4:02 pm

paranteză: afex, aici, la al doilea citat cred că vroiai să spui "aceiashi copii s-ar putea sa aiba viziuni deformate shi intr-o familie de hetero"
ăsta e un argument greşit, ştii bine. inchid paranteza.

reiau - susţin ideea legalizării uniunilor homosexuale după modelul căsătoriei cu amendamentu' interzicerii dreptului de a adopta.

ce drepturi anume? eu am impresia ca tot ce vor ei (mai putzin adoptzia) se poate realiza cu mijloace legale de orice oameni necasatoritzi.


nu-i chiar aşa, dă un gugăl pe "dreptul familei" şi vezi acolo, pe larg, ce şi cum.

proprietatea comuna se poate face prin acte, fara a fi casatorit. toate problemele pe care mi le pot inchipui la un divortz pot fi rezolvate prin acte care sa specifice clar cum se impart bunurile din nush ce moment (din momentul in care cei doi nu mai conlocuiesc). am auzit chestii aproape incredibile rezolvate in acest fel (de proprietatzi, de uzura etc.). singura obiectzie valabila este cea a atacarii in instantza.

nu crezi că e nefiresc să nu reglementezi nişte treburi mergand pe teoria "las' că dacă se chinuie oricum se rezolvă"?

propunerea lui faw de uniune consensuala (conlocuire, concubinaj, spunetzi-i cum vretzi) mi se pare suficienta shi un maxim pe care l-ash putea acorda homosexualilor. dar ash propune ca aceasta uniune sa se aplice nu numai la persoane care pretind ca se iubesc, ci la orice grup de persoane care doreshte a impartzi oareshce shi drepturile cashtigate sa fie in consecintza.

păi cam asta e ideea. dacă tot există, gata normatizată, instituţia căsătoriei nu e firesc să ii facem ajustarea cu interzicerea adopţiei şi gata treaba?
nodingat
 
Mesaje: 720
Membru din: Mie Iun 09, 2004 11:00 pm

Mesajde h0va » Joi Feb 03, 2005 4:04 pm

mihaimm scrie:Adica daca sunt pentru legiferarea poligamiei inseamna ca vreau si eu? Sau ce vrea sa insemne asta?

nu bre, vrea sa'nsemne ca orice argument potz aduce tu contra poligamiei se bate cap in cap cu tuata pledoria ta pro-mariajul gay..numa' incearca..vino' cu doo trei argumente impotriva poligamiei chiar insist..

dana scrie:care ar mai fi alte mari valori mihai, de care se tine cont in viata noastra spirituala? spune-mi tu te rog.


alea bagate pe gat cu de'a sila de EU shi alte foruri de jen..cel pootzin asha am intzeles eo de la supermaus..

?!
Avatar utilizator
h0va
 
Mesaje: 2049
Membru din: Mar Oct 21, 2003 11:00 pm

Mesajde aphextwinz » Joi Feb 03, 2005 4:13 pm

mihaim, care-s acele multe state din lume unde este legala poligamia (ne referim la mariaj, da, nu la practica?) ca io ma mut acolo :D ? ca asha itzi gasesc eu state bananiere unde este legala pedofilia (prin simplul fapt ca nu-s impuse limite de varsta), zoofilia (pentru ca nu exista legislatzie in acest sens) etc.?

shi de ce sa nu pun toate deviatziile sexuale in aceeashi categorie? vorba ta, discutam aici despre mariajul = consecintza a unei "identitatzi" sexuale sau de natura celei din urma?

casnicia are legatura numai cu proliferarea. ca exista cupluri care nu produc, este un accident shi un abuz al acestei institutzii (daca te intereseaza istoria cuplului omenesc). inainte sa existe imprumuturi la banca shi emigrari, existau comunitatzi in care doi oameni de sexe opuse n-aveau nici-un motiv anume pentru a-shi sacraliza legatura, pentru a se identifica. shi cuplurile de lunga durata se cladeau in jurul unor copii. iar casatoria a aparut pentru a sacraliza aceasta uniune, este o alta latura a unui arhaic cult al fertilitatzii. bashca, cuplurile bazate pe sex, dar infertile nu erau privite cu ochi buni.
apoi, trecand peste istorie, intreaba-te tu, de ce statul faciliteaza anumite chestii pentru tinerii casatoritzi? crezi ca are vreun interes sa intretzina huzurul shi umflatul burtzii? oare n-o face pentru ca majoritatea celor care sa casatoresc o fac pentru a-sh cladi o familie, ashadar sa procreeze shi sa creasca copii?
de crezi ca exista legislatzie speciala pentru casatoritzi? nu tot din acelashi motiv al familiei? crezi ca imigrantul care-l deranja pe offenderu' ishi aduce femeia pentru ii pasa vreunui guvern de iubirea lui?
intai gandeshte-te de ce exista casatoria shi pe urma cladeshte-tzi argumentatzia pro-tolerantza. sau crezi shi tu ca mausa ca definitzia aia cu un "barbat shi o femeie" a fost impusa de creshtinatatea medievala, asupritoare shi intoleranta? :rolleyes:
aphextwinz
Junior Member
 
Mesaje: 2126
Membru din: Lun Iul 30, 2001 11:00 am
Localitate: La Matze Fripte

Mesajde nae cinefil » Joi Feb 03, 2005 4:19 pm

tinere hova, zicea unteva danone de proliferare, ashea ca, zic io, raspunsul meu nu-shi mai are rostul. poligamia n-are nimic de-a face cu homosexualitatea shi (nu din acest motiv) n-am nimic impotriva ei!
[color=red][color=#000000][color=sienna]citat celebru[color=black] - personaj celebru ([color=silver]by default)[/color]
[/color][/color]
[/color][/color]
Avatar utilizator
nae cinefil
 
Mesaje: 3740
Membru din: Mar Sep 30, 2003 11:00 pm

Mesajde eyewitness » Joi Feb 03, 2005 4:21 pm

care-s acele multe state din lume unde este legala poligamia

arabe
conform coranului un tovaras arab, cu sau fara butic in romania, are voe la 4 neveste. numa ca tot coranu zice ca tuate cele 4 trebe tratate in mod iegal ceea ce, in practica, cum ai zis si matale carturare, nu prea e posibil. ~p

numa ca, discutia a alunecat pe o panta paralela cu subiectu initial si asistam la discutii sterile neargumentate de fuarte multi vorbitori. oricum mie imi place si sunt un spectator fidel

continuati va rog
If you want to be a hippie, put a flower in your peepee
Avatar utilizator
eyewitness
 
Mesaje: 19220
Membru din: Lun Aug 05, 2002 11:00 pm

Mesajde aphextwinz » Joi Feb 03, 2005 4:21 pm

sephinoroth scrie: la al doilea citat cred că]hetero[/B]"
ă sta e un argument greş it, ş tii bine. inchid paranteza.
nu, am spus "homo". te las sa te mai gandeshti ... :rolleyes:

nu-i chiar aşa, dă un gugăl pe "dreptul familei" şi vezi acolo, pe larg, ce şi cum.
in traducere libera: "n-am nici-un argument, dar poate ma salveeaza gugle". familie fara copii? haide bre, scuteshte-ma ...

nu crezi că e nefiresc să nu reglementezi nişte treburi mergand pe teoria "las' că dacă se chinuie oricum se rezolvă "?
da' mie imi reglementeaza cineva ceva daca nu-s casatorit? sau casatoria in viziunea unora este acea chestie magica prin care fraieresc io viatza shi mi se rezolva toate de la sine? lasa bre, vrei sa nu mai alergam atat dupa acte la notar? ce daca suntem amandoi barbatzi, ce daca nu suntem homo, ne casatorim shi gata, am rezolvat shapte acte dintr-un foc :rolleyes:

păi cam asta e ideea. dacă tot exist ă , gata normatizat ă , instituţia c ă s ă toriei nu e firesc s ă ii facem ajustarea cu interzicerea adopţiei şi gata treaba?
cand o sa vina la tine un grup de cerecetashi orfani care sub obladuirea celui mare shi prin efortul tuturor gasesc o modalitate de a convietzui, sa te vad pe tine la "cununia" lor. io raman la al meu "contract de conlocuire/concubinaj" care nu tzine seama nici de numar, nici de sex, nici de nimic, shi n-are legatura cu activitatea shi preferintzele sexuale.
aphextwinz
Junior Member
 
Mesaje: 2126
Membru din: Lun Iul 30, 2001 11:00 am
Localitate: La Matze Fripte

Mesajde Djinn » Joi Feb 03, 2005 4:22 pm

aphextwinz scrie:shi aici ii raspund shi lu' faw daca nu sexul la liber, atunci ce justifica procentul mai mare de SIDA in randurile homosexualilor?


izact. Perfectly true, sunt de acord cu dvs, insa nu stiu dac-ati observat ca in postul respectiv bateam moneda pentru neamestecarea la gramada a lesbienelor cu homosexualii, taman din acest motiv, caci din cate auzii io (recunosc, ma bazez pe auzite si pe ce stiu io despre ceea ce vor femeile in general :rolleyes: ) relatiile intre doo ele nu se bazeaza atat de mult pe sex ca cele dintre doi iei. La o adica, sexul nu e un scop in sine pentru femei si "ele" nu cauta noi si noi experiente sexuale ci o partenera de viata. Stabila.

Cu poligamia sunt de acord, da' numai in varianta poliandrie, ratzvoisafitzi :D

PS - poate intr-o tzara musulmana, ceva mai de lumea a treia, sa fie poligamia legala? :p zic si io....

nae cinefil scrie:tinere hova, zicea eva danone de proliferare


~p ~p danone, vezi ce faci cu maru ala :p

PPS - sephinoroth, DA-LE DRACU DE DIACRITICE-N PLM !! m-am saturat de catzi michimaushi imi danseaza pe ecran :mad:
Avatar utilizator
Djinn
 
Mesaje: 4332
Membru din: Lun Noi 15, 2004 12:00 am

Mesajde aphextwinz » Joi Feb 03, 2005 4:25 pm

ochila, poligamia aia la arabi e o chestie discriminatorie, ma gandeam la poligamie asha la liber, adica 2 barbatzi shi 3 femei se gandesc ca orgiile lor sunt reushite shi hai s-o faca lata in permanentza shi oficial (adica daca il suna pe unu' de la biro, ca de ce intarzie, sa ii raspunda: uite sunt cu sotzu shi cu cele 3 neveste shi ne-am incurcat intre cearceafuri de nu mai putem eshi)
aphextwinz
Junior Member
 
Mesaje: 2126
Membru din: Lun Iul 30, 2001 11:00 am
Localitate: La Matze Fripte

Mesajde nocturna » Joi Feb 03, 2005 4:28 pm

mai faw, mimoza :p, am intzeles, matale delimitezi lesbienele de omosecsuali, din cauza de neshte chestii diferite + ca ai bagat vrajelile alea p'acolo. ok. da' ce propui, concret, pe subiect? ce insinuezi? ca ie mai ok sa fii lesbiana decat omosecsual? ca poate, poate, ca lesbienele ie ashe, mai aparte decat omosecsualii? ca poate ar reushi sa creasca un copil deimpreuna? ca poate, poate iele are avea voie sa se marite, intre iele? sau cum? pai, ori legalizezi shi pentru omosecsuali shi pentru lesbiene, or nu mai legalizezi deloc. io nu pricep unde vrei pentru ca sa ajungi. tzii partea la lesbiene, da' omsoecsualii ie ashe iei mai najpa, sau cum ?
"Sunt un om. Mi se pare ca e de ajuns"

A.K.M. powered by another.ro
Avatar utilizator
nocturna
 
Mesaje: 8725
Membru din: Mie Dec 04, 2002 12:00 am

Mesajde theOffender » Joi Feb 03, 2005 4:29 pm

mihaim, care-s acele multe state din lume unde este legala poligamia

arabia saudita, emirate arabe, yemen, maroc, algeria, iordania, egipt, libia, pakistan, afghanistan, iran, quatar, kuweit, bahrain, mauritania,...

mai vrei?

ca asha itzi gasesc eu state bananiere unde este legala pedofilia (prin simplul fapt ca nu-s impuse limite de varsta), zoofilia (pentru ca nu exista legislatzie in acest sens) etc.?


deci nu sunt. nici unul. deci.
mishto argumente, umblat shi tu prin lume ca deejay al meu in jurul casei :)
what is freedom of expression? without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist - salman rushdie
Avatar utilizator
theOffender
 
Mesaje: 2094
Membru din: Lun Iul 19, 2004 11:00 pm

Mesajde Djinn » Joi Feb 03, 2005 4:36 pm

miazanoapte cu lb scoasa :D alea nu ie vrajeli, ie argumente. Te invit sa mi le demolezi :yD

Nu insinuiez ca e mai ok sa fii lesbiana decat homosexual :rolleyes: nici ca iele ar avea voie sa se marite si iei nu.

Sustin doar atat: nu folositi pentru a ataca ansamblul comunitatii gay argumente care se potrivesc doar unei parti a acesteia. Pentru ca altfel nu facetzi decat sa confirmati faptul ca romanii manaca lebede la Viena si si-au facut ocupatie de baza din cersitul prin capitale occidentale ;)

multzumesc pentru atentie. Astept za wreckin' ball :p
Avatar utilizator
Djinn
 
Mesaje: 4332
Membru din: Lun Noi 15, 2004 12:00 am

Mesajde nocturna » Joi Feb 03, 2005 4:42 pm

relatiile intre doo ele nu se bazeaza atat de mult pe sex ca cele dintre doi iei. La o adica, sexul nu e un scop in sine pentru femei si "ele" nu cauta noi si noi experiente sexuale ci o partenera de viata. Stabila.

ai shi demonstrat tu trebile astea? eshti sigura de iele? astea nu-s argumente. is nishte sinple afirmatzii despre ce frumuasa ie luna shi cate stele au furat ai tai genitori inscopu de a tzi le depozita in privire...
folositi pentru a ataca ansamblul comunitatii gay argumente care se potrivesc doar unei parti a acesteia.

ok. io sustzin treaba cu "nu trebuie sa legalizam shi deci incurajam o anomalie", care ie valabila din oricare punct ai analiza situatzia.

ai gata, mai datzi-va incolo ca ma sechestreaza ashtia la biuro.
"Sunt un om. Mi se pare ca e de ajuns"

A.K.M. powered by another.ro
Avatar utilizator
nocturna
 
Mesaje: 8725
Membru din: Mie Dec 04, 2002 12:00 am

Mesajde aphextwinz » Joi Feb 03, 2005 4:47 pm

domnu' offender, cre' ca mai bine sa umblu nitzel dar sa vorbesc mai pe ce jtiu decat sa umblu mult shi sa vorbeasca gura fara mine

a) poligamia araba este un caz aparte shi discriminatoriu de poligamie. in nici-unul din statele occidentale (etalonul in materie de drepturi) poligamia nu este acceptata. dpdv al discutziei noastre, acele state sunt ca shi cele bananiere. in aceleashi state comportamentul homosexual este interzis (nu vorbesc de casatorie). asha ca explozia enumeratziei n-o intzeleg. care-s acele multe state pana la urma, ca nu crez ca ajungi la 20. dar mai shtii, itzi urez succes.

b) pedofilia (sub diverse aspecte) este acceptata in multe tzari "bananiere" datorita varstei scazute sub care oamenii sunt consideratzi aptzi pentru sex (care dpndv nu este shi varsta la care ei au un discernamant total).
http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm <- uita-te pe site-ul asta shi mai spune-mi de calatoriile tale shi experientzele tale in pedofilie. sunt state care nici macar nu au definite limite inferioare. sa nu zic, ca asta sunt statele mai mari, shi unde au avut respectivii acces la legislatzie shi nu insule gen Nauru sau to' felu' de gramajoare polineziene cu nooshpe locuitori.
sunt convins ca daca ash cauta ash gasi statistici shi pentru carentzele in legislatzia privitoare la incest, sau zoofilie. dar nu cred ca are rost. vreau doar sa arat ca exista shi alte comportamente sexuale deviate, care uneori nici nu sunt interzise, comportamente la care nici macar nu se pune problema de a fi oficializate.

vorbind de linku' de mai sus, intr-adevar in multe state limita inferioara este 12, 13 sau 14 ani. de-a dreptul imbucurator, vine boshorogu' de 60, il ia pe tzancu' de 14 shi totu' e ok, nu?
aphextwinz
Junior Member
 
Mesaje: 2126
Membru din: Lun Iul 30, 2001 11:00 am
Localitate: La Matze Fripte

Mesajde aphextwinz » Joi Feb 03, 2005 4:59 pm

<Scuze daca mesajele ies consecutive - link-ul asta il vreau separat>

am dat de un articol interesant. cititzi-l shi daca vretzi, il discutam. caci nu blameaza comportamentul gay, ci gay rights movement. ma interpela cineva mai devreme cu privire la acel aberant 1% - este explicata shi aceasta ;)

ingioi: http://www.euro-tongil.org/swedish/english/ehomo2.htm

edit: finalul este moralizator intr-un mod tampit, dar in fine - una peste alta are date interesante
aphextwinz
Junior Member
 
Mesaje: 2126
Membru din: Lun Iul 30, 2001 11:00 am
Localitate: La Matze Fripte

Mesajde sin ella » Joi Feb 03, 2005 5:01 pm

Afirmasem undeva pe acest thread ca nu sunt impotriva casatoriei intre persoane de acelasi sex. Ei bine, datorita argumentelor aduse de aphextwinz, danone si nocturna (nu neaparat in aceasta ordine) si pentru ca sunt o persoana flexibila :D (a se citi inconsecventa) mi-am schimbat total parerea.

Originally Posted by theOffender
las pe restul sa judece.

Am ezitat sa urmez invitatia de mai sus din simplul fapt ca EU risc sa fiu banata daca indraznesc sa ma indoiesc de faptul ca susnumitul este atat de destept cum se crede. Dar pentru ca nu sunt numai flexibila, ci si curajoasa, iata parerea mea:

theOffender, de cateva zile insiri aici cuvinte peste cuvinte fara nici un fir logic si dupa principiul “nu canta bine, da’ canta tareâ€Â
............................
sin ella
 
Mesaje: 2033
Membru din: Vin Noi 26, 2004 12:00 pm
Localitate: pe alt forum

Mesajde eyewitness » Joi Feb 03, 2005 5:07 pm

carturare, nu contest caracterul discriminatoriu al poligamiei la arabi si chiar in general (vezi utah/mormonii) . merg duar pe premisa ca sistemul juridic al tarilor islamice are la baza coranu deci religia si paradoxal chiar daca le consideram "bananiere" (pe unele) legiferarea homosexualitatii sau casatoriile cetatenilor de acelash secs nu se va intanpla nici intr-o mie de ani.

ideea era ca nu consider relevanta argumentatia prin paralelism al dreptului la mai multe sotii cu dreptul la casatorie a persuanelor de acelasi secs (cine-o fi facut-o pe tred ca nu mai tin minte :D)
If you want to be a hippie, put a flower in your peepee
Avatar utilizator
eyewitness
 
Mesaje: 19220
Membru din: Lun Aug 05, 2002 11:00 pm

Mesajde aphextwinz » Joi Feb 03, 2005 5:26 pm

eu am facut-o. pentru ca cei care sustzin drepturile casatoriei homosexuale, o fac pe baza unei asha-zise egalitatzi, shi nu pe baza religiei.
adica daca casatoria nu mai e intre un barbat shi o femeie, shi e intre doi oameni, de ce sa fie doi? sau de ce sa fie amandoi oameni? pana unde sa mergem cu relativismu' asta?
aphextwinz
Junior Member
 
Mesaje: 2126
Membru din: Lun Iul 30, 2001 11:00 am
Localitate: La Matze Fripte

Mesajde miHaimm » Joi Feb 03, 2005 5:57 pm

Despre articoul indicat de aphextwinz
1 out of 5 girl and 1 out of 10 boys has been sexually abused before the age of 18
Mai da' nasol de copchii din State... si parintii aia... e Iadu' plin de sufletel lor (deci m-am mai linistit... poate nu mai am si eu loc).

Oricum articolul este interesant dar are cateva lacune (ca sa nu mai vorbim de finalul de-a dreptul hilar).

Spre exemplu nu exista nici un argument concret impotriva posibilitatii ca homosexualitatea sa aiba naturi genetice sau hormonale (cu toate ca se sustine acest lucru). Sigur... se citeaza autori cu renume care incheie totusi prin: "although we should recognize that there remains the theoretical possibility that biological abnormalities could contribute a potential vulnerability in some indirect way".

De asemenea argumentele referitoare la abuzuri in copilarie care duc la homosexualitate mi se par nefondate avand atat de multe exemple contrare de ambele parti (fie homosexuali provenind din familii perfect normale si care nu au avut nici o problema, fie heterosexuali care provin din familii abuzive si care ar avea toate motivele sa fie traumatizati).

" scrie:mihai pierzi esenta, casatoria in esenta are legatura cu procreerea, cum am mai zis. "Va lasa omul pe tatal sau si pe mama sa si se va lipi de nevasta-sa si se vor face un singur trup".
Deci... te rog mult lasa religia in afara discutiei. Pentru ca nu toti oamenii au aceiasi religie si este total aiurea sa negi drepturile cuiva pe motiv ca asa scrie in Biblie. Daca nu crezi ca e aiurea, as vrea sa amintesc de inchizitie, pamantul plat, pamantul centrul Universului, etc.

Argumentul meu contra unei legaturi dintre procreare si casatorie este simplu. Atata timp cat casatoria nu este o conditie nici necesara si nici suficienta pentru procreare iar reciproca este de asemenea valabila (procrearea nu e conditie necesara sau suficienta pentru casatorie) legatura dintre cele doua este cel putin vaga.

" scrie:pana unde sa mergem cu relativismu' asta?
Uite... ce-ar fi daca am spune ceva de genul: "casatoria este legatura dintre 2 sau mai multe fiinte care consimt de buna voie si nesilite de nimeni si sunt capabile sa inteleaga notiunea, drepturile si responsabilitatile... bla, bla, bla...". Si in loc de bla, bla, bla pus codul familiei (adaptat desigur definitiei).

" scrie:carturare, nu contest caracterul discriminatoriu al poligamiei la arabi si chiar in general (vezi utah/mormonii)
Apropos... ultima oara cand am citit codul familiei (acu vre-o 5 ani) treaba cu poligamia la noi era ca un barbat nu poate avea mai multe sotii, nespecificandu-se nimic despre femeile care nu pot avea mai multi barbati (e drept nu am citit ce spunea codul penal in privinta asta). Deci... ca sa zic asa... si la noi poligamia este discriminatoare in codul familiei (sigur, este o omisiune, dar aceasta simpla omisiune evidenta neaga argumentatia drepturilor egale dintre homo si hetero la noi). Si nu e singura omisiune... la drept penal (tot acu' 5 ani) violul putea fi facut doar de un barbat.
miHaimm
Junior Member
 
Mesaje: 168
Membru din: Lun Feb 02, 2004 7:25 pm
Localitate: Polonia, Cracovia

Mesajde miHaimm » Joi Feb 03, 2005 6:48 pm


Ma mut in Sri Lanka... (male/female - 16, male/male - illegal, female/female - 16) :rulz:
miHaimm
Junior Member
 
Mesaje: 168
Membru din: Lun Feb 02, 2004 7:25 pm
Localitate: Polonia, Cracovia

Mesajde supermouse » Joi Feb 03, 2005 8:54 pm

in other news, se pare ca domniile vuastre tocmai atzi luat o fuarte mare tzeapa
~p
http://webcenter.health.webmd.netscape.com/content/Article/100/105486.htm?pagenumber=1
New Genetic Regions Associated With Male Sexual Orientation Found

an. 28, 2005 - The genes a man gets from his mother and father may play an important role in determining whether he is gay or not, according to a new study likely to reignite the "gay gene" debate.

Researchers say it's the first time the entire human genetic makeup has been scanned in search of possible genetic determinants of male sexual orientation. The results suggest that several genetic regions may influence homosexuality.

"It builds on previous studies that have consistently found evidence of genetic influence on sexual orientation, but our study is the first to look at exactly where those genes are located," says researcher Brian Mustanski, PhD, a psychologist at the University of Illinois at Chicago.

Those previous studies looked only at the genes located on the X chromosome. Genes on this chromosome are only passed to a son from his mother. But this study examined genetic information on all chromosomes, including genes from the father.


The findings show that identical stretches of DNA on three chromosomes were shared by about 60% of gay brothers in the study compared to the about 50% normally expected by chance.

Gay Gene Debate

A heated debate over the existence of a "gay gene" emerged from a 1993 report published in the journal Science by then-NIH researcher Dean Hamer, PhD. That study linked DNA markers on the X chromosome to male sexual orientation.

Since then, questions arose regarding the validity of those results. Other researchers are attempting to replicate and verify Hamer's findings. Hamer is also senior author of the current study, which appears in the March issue of Human Genetics.

But researchers say this study takes a different approach. Its goal was not to replicate those findings but to search for new genetic markers associated with male sexual orientation.

"Since sexual orientation is such a complex trait, we're never going to find any one gene that determines whether someone is gay or not," says Mustanski. "It's going to be a combination of various genes acting together as well as possibly interacting with environmental influences."

Previous studies in male twins have suggested that between 40%-60% of the variability in sexual orientation is due to genes. The rest is thought to be due to environment and possibly other biologic but nongenetic causes.
Search for Gay Genes

In the study, researchers analyzed the genetic makeup of 456 men from 146 families with two or more gay brothers.

The genetic scans showed a clustering of the same genetic pattern among the gay men on three chromosomes -- chromosomes 7, 8, and 10. These common genetic patterns were shared by 60% of the gay men in the study. This is slightly more than the 50% expected by chance alone.

The regions on chromosome 7 and 8 were associated with male sexual orientation regardless of whether the man got them from his mother or father. The regions on chromosome 10 were only associated with male sexual orientation if they were inherited from the mother.

Mustanski compares the study's approach to a search for doctors in a town of 40,000 people, a number that roughly corresponds to the number of human genes.

Rather than guessing that doctors live in a particular type of house and going to only the houses that meet that criteria, researchers in this scenario would knock on every door to ask the residents if a doctor lives on their street. Using a similar approach, researchers were able to locate a few potential genetic neighborhoods that likely contribute to male sexual orientation.

Researchers say the next step is to verify these results in a different group of men to see if the same genetic regions are associated with sexual orientation. If the findings hold up, then Mustanski says they could start to look for the individual genes within these regions linked to sexual orientation.

New Targets for Gay Gene Research

Elliot S. Gershon, MD, professor of psychiatry and human genetics at the University of Chicago, says the study represents an important step forward in understanding how genes affect human sexual orientation.

"It is worth testing genes within a region of linkage to see if one of them has a variant that is more frequent in men who are gay than in men who are not," says Gershon, who is also currently involved in another study of gay brothers and genetic influences on sexual orientation.

"This report adds to the legitimacy of research on normal variations in human behavior," Gershon tells WebMD. "There is an argument that has been made in public press that it doesn't make sense to study conditions or traits that are behavioral. But this suggests that there is a genetic contribution to this particular trait of same sex orientation."

SOURCES: Mustanski, B. Human Genetics, March 2005 online first edition. Brian Mustanski, PhD, department of psychiatry, University of Illinois at Chicago. Elliot S. Gershon, MD, professor of psychiatry and human genetics, University of Chicago. News release, University of Illinois at Chicago. Council for Responsible Genetics.

In concluzie ash dori sa le multumesc celor care au participat la thread, atat celor pro- cu o surpriza placuta din partea lui Ofendaru' cat shi celor care au avut bunavointza de a ne oferi o placuta excursie in lumea propriilor prejudecatzi shi bigotisme, myself included.

Shi dupa cum se puate vedea mai sus, se pare ca prietenii noshtri ar trebui sa mai citeasca shi sa mai invetze. ~p ~p ~p
riiiiiiiiiight................
supermouse
Junior Member
 
Mesaje: 3586
Membru din: Vin Apr 16, 2004 11:00 am
Localitate: in padure

Mesajde supermouse » Joi Feb 03, 2005 9:09 pm

in other news, se pare ca bigotzi de felul prietenilor ce ne-au intunecat pe acest thread mai sunt shi in alte partzi, therefore s-au strans neshte capete luminate shi au comis un FAQ pe intzelesu tuturor bigotzilor
Shi daca adancele vuastre cunoshtintze de engleza nu va ajuta la a o pricepe pe chestie, datzi Pemeu shi promit sa gasesc shi timpul de a o traduce


Commonly Asked Questions About Homosexuality
Vern L. Bullough, Ph.D., Barry M. Dank, M.A.,
Howard E. Fradkin, Ph.D., James L. Kepner, Jr.,
W. Dorr Legg, M.L.D., and Robert E. Newton, B.S.

Magazine articles, books, news reporting, movies and public discussions of Gay/Lesbian are so plentiful today as to indicate a genuine public concern about the subject and a desire to better understand it. However, the layman has difficulty in finding simple, straightforward answers to many of his questions readily available in convenient form.

To help fill this need, a pamphlet (reprinted here) has been prepared by a panel of highly qualified social scientists and specialists, each of whom has studies gays/lesbian extensively and at least one of whom is himself Gay. In addition to his study, each of the panelists has done much interviewing and counseling work with Gay/Lesbian, gaining thereby a broad insight into the attitudes and behavior patterns of several thousand such persons.

The aim of this publication is to replace misconceptions and
fears about Gay/Lesbian with a better understanding of the subject. It is hoped that this will result in improved and more humane attitudes toward those men and women for whom Gay/Lesbian is their way of life and effect a better integration into society of such individuals, many of whom are worthwhile and useful people. Such a goal would seem to be preferable to
the traditional practice of alienating them and increasing the numbers of individuals who are a burden upon society.

What does it mean to be Gay/Lesbian?
It is the condition of being sexually attracted and drawn to members of one's own sex.

Who is Gay/Lesbian?
The only basis for deciding whether one is or is not Gay/Lesbian is a continuing erotic preference for partners of the same sex.

Does a Gay/Lesbian act make one a homosexual?
No. Many boys and girls during early childhood and adolescence have homosexual experiences without lasting effects. Also, under special circumstances, such as military service and prison life, homosexual behavior sometimes occurs on a temporary basis.


How many Gay/Lesbian are there?
No one really knows. However, several authorities have estimated that perhaps one out of every ten adults could be so classified. Therefore, the number would total many millions.

Can Gays/Lesbians be easily identified?
Contrary to popular belief, most Gay/Lesbian are indistinguishable in appearance from other people. They are found in all walks of life, at all social and economic levels and
among all cultural groups. Homosexual tastes and personalities vary as widely as do heterosexual. Some male homosexuals are feminine in manner and appearance and some female Lesbians seem masculine. Transvestites, those who prefer the clothing of
the opposite sex, and transsexuals, those who feel they are trapped in the body of the wrong sex and therefore seek surgery, usually have a psychological make up quite different from that of most gays/lesbians.

Is homosexuality unnatural?
From a scientific point of view it is not. It would seem to be one of the natural variations of human sexuality which some societies are more willing to accept than are others. Endocrinologist
Harry Benjamin, M.D., has written, "Do we know what 'normal' means? I don't know. I believe that we only know what is customary."


Are Gays/Lesbians mentally ill?
No. To label homosexuality as a mental illness reflects a
value judgment based on social and religious attitudes, rather
than on scientific evidence. Some Gays/Lesbians, like some heterosexuals, do indeed suffer from anxiety or other psychological difficulties. Quite often this has been brought
on by pressures from a society which is intolerant and
uninformed concerning homosexuality.


Are Gays/Lesbians criminals?
Gays/Lesbians are no more nor less law-abiding than the rest of the population. However, the laws of most states against oral- genital, anal and masturbatory behavior do label homosexual acts as criminal. The majority of heterosexuals would likewise be designated criminals were such laws enforced.

Are children seduced into homosexuality?
Homosexual seduction is no more common than is heterosexual seduction. Numerically it is much less frequent because there are fewer Gays/Lesbians. Several surveys have shown that most persons who engaged in homosexuality during their adolescent years did so with those of approximately their own ages.
Schofield reports that of one group of students, about three-fourths "had started homosexual activity with other boys before the age of seventeen; only a few were initiated by adults."

What causes homosexuality?
It is not yet known what causes either heterosexuality or homosexuality. It has been held that heterosexuals may be hormonally, genetically and biologically different from Gays/Lesbians. Others have argued that a young child's emotional relationships with his parents and those near to him
will determine his sexual pattern in adulthood. Much further research will be needed before a definite answer can be given.

Can homosexuality be cured?
Since homosexuality is merely one of the variations of sexual behavior and has been considered to be quite normal in some societies during various periods in history, a better question
might be "Should homosexuals change? If so, why?" Available
statistics indicate that large numbers of gays/lesbians see no reasons for wanting to change. Many of those who have tried to change have found treatment to be both long term and expensive with results often unsatisfactory. Many therapists now favor helping individuals to accept their homosexuality, rather than
to seek change.

Is homosexuality necessarily a handicap?
No one's sexual orientation need be a handicap. Gays/Lesbians and heterosexuals alike can lead happy, productive lives, provided they come to terms with their sexuality. For some persons, however, the social sanctions and public prejudice against homosexuality may create special problems and unhappiness.

Is there a homosexual personality?
None has so far been identified. Scientifically administered personality tests have not revealed any clear-cut distinctions between heterosexuals and Gays/Lesbians, other than that of their sexual preference.

What kind of jobs do Gay/Lesbians hold?
Like other minority groups, they have tended to take those jobs having the fewest barriers. Thus, they are no more inclined to be hair dresses than Negroes are to be janitors. Surveys have shown that Gays/Lesbians can be found in every occupational grouping from the ministry to professional athletics and police forces. However, the vast majority of Gays/Lesbians must take great pains not to reveal their gays/lesbian inclinations on their jobs, for their efficient and effective job performance is often no protection to them if homosexuality is suspected.

Are Gays/Lesbians child molesters
The overwhelming majority of Gays/Lesbians have no interest in preadolescent children. Their interest in adolescents is no greater or more significant than that of heterosexuals. Pedophiles, those adults who do seek sexual contacts with young children, present a difficult and often tragic problem, but this should be clearly
distinguished from homosexuality. According to studies of such offenders in prisons, the majority of pedophiles are, or have been, married men.

Are Gays/Lesbians as promiscuous as claimed?
Not necessarily. However, because of the nature of the
social pressures they face, it is more difficult for Gays/Lesbians
to establish long-term, stable relationships than it is for
heterosexual couples. Research indicates that there are
many long-term homosexual relationships sometimes referred
to as "marriages."
riiiiiiiiiight................
supermouse
Junior Member
 
Mesaje: 3586
Membru din: Vin Apr 16, 2004 11:00 am
Localitate: in padure

Mesajde supermouse » Joi Feb 03, 2005 9:10 pm

Will having heterosexual relations solve anything?
The Gay/Lesbian who has already identified himself as such
is seldom swayed by having some heterosexual experiences, particularly if they are sought out of desperation or anxiety. Gays/Lesbians who try marriage as a way out usually end up
by making not only themselves miserable but the spouse as well. Children of such marriages are also caught up in the tragedy.

Should Gays/Lesbians try to resist their sex urges?
It would be as unrealistic to expect Gays/Lesbians to practice complete sexual abstinence as to expect heterosexuals to do the same. Undoubtedly some Gays/Lesbians manage, as do some heterosexuals, to remain celibate throughout their lives, but most people would find this not only impossible but undesirable.

Will close personal relationships between adolescents and adults of the same sex lead to homosexuality?
This fear of intimate friendships, particularly between males, has had negative effects on the mental well-being and normal relationships of men to each other in the estimation of many researchers. It is perfectly natural for an adult male to express love and affection for another man or for an adolescent without being homosexual. Displays of affection between males are commonplace in many countries of the world, and even in the United States it is not considered inappropriate for women to show warm affection for each other. Male fear of establishing intimate relationships seems due to the prevailing tremendous misunderstandings about what homosexuality actually means.


What dangers do homosexuals encounter?
One of the consequences of being a member of a disdained minority group is that gays/lesbians are frequently victimized by blackmailers and unscrupulous police. Since known gays/lesbians are excluded generally from employment by government agencies and from membership in the armed forces, blackmailers may threaten them with exposure. Some gays/lesbians would rather pay money to such persons than to lose their jobs. Entrapment procedures are often used against gays/lesbians; that is, in order to make an arrest the police sometimes encourage gays/lesbians or even make advances to them. Such abuses would be eliminated if the so-called sex laws were changed?

If the social and legal sanctions against homosexuality were removed, would it increase?
Social and legal equality for gays/lesbians would undoubtedly lead to more openness about homosexuality. This might lead some people to think there had been an increase. It is also likely that some "borderline" cases, those who might have been trying to seek a heterosexual adjustment, would be less willing to do so. However, since homosexual tendencies are not usually acquired by choice, the state of law would be unlikely to make any difference in the number of homosexuals. The vast majority of people would remain heterosexual as at present. In countries having had legal freedom for homosexual behavior for many years, this has apparently been the usual result.

Does homosexuality cause societies to decline?
A careful study of history would tend to indicate that there is no discernible connection between the state of a nation's fortunes and its attitude toward homosexual behavior. The decline of Rome, for example, was due to many social and economic factors, including an inability to successfully transfer power from one ruler to another. Homosexuality in itself was not a factor.



Will public discussion of homosexuality lead to its increase?
One of the best ways to reduce misinformation, misconceptions and myths about sex is to openly discuss such matters with young people at a time when they are most interested in the topic.
The notion that the way to protect young people from something
is to keep them in ignorance of it betrays not only a strange lack of confidence in the good sense of the younger generation but also goes contrary to what we know about the learning process.

Should parents discuss homosexuality with their children?
There should be frank discussion of this and other subjects
if young people are to be helped in working through their adolescent difficulties over sex orientation. Also, parents, teachers, athletic coaches and all others who deal with
young people need to clarify their own attitudes concerning homosexuality. Rejection of a young person will not help
him and may do incalculable harm.

http://www.lhup.edu/diversity/homosexuality.htm

in concluzie scumpilor, chestia care se aude este zgomotul pe care il fac asha- zisele voastre argumente in timp ce se scurg bland pe canal in jos
A se observa ca este un pamflet vechi de circa 25 de ani. Articolul anterior, well, ala e de azi
riiiiiiiiiight................
supermouse
Junior Member
 
Mesaje: 3586
Membru din: Vin Apr 16, 2004 11:00 am
Localitate: in padure

AnteriorUrmătorul

Înapoi la Politica

Cine este conectat

Utilizatorii ce navighează pe acest forum: Niciun utilizator înregistrat şi 0 vizitatori